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How to handle power dynamics with a toxic manager and what makes us as a difficult target for such people?

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Anonymous User at Taro Community4 days ago

My ex-manager used to gaslight me often and I've endured covert abuse for 2 years in his unit. I have no idea what I was going through but I thought to fix the situation by being kind and by doing all the work. I used to question certain aspects that hinder my work in my 1-on-1 meetings and I felt isolated from support and the 1-0n-1s are draining & not progressing. I've experienced area leads taking my credit and the line manager enabling such behaviors. When questioned, I was told "I know the area lead from years, I will not support you on this matter"

Right after 3 months, on the TELL day, I was moved to a different organization (thanks to my mentor for picking me up from the outlist). On the last handover day, toxic line manager told me "that the same thing would happen to me again and to any employee, the most important thing is the relationship with the line manager and I didn't had a good relationship with him since the beginning. He also told me that I might be technically best but he doesn't like my behaviors and tone. He just showed what he can do as a line manager and I will not let you grow."

Coming from an over-protective background and with a good girl complex, I usually minded my business at work and stayed out of politics, just giving my 101% to my area and helping others naturally. I was moved out of the area where I created a lot of impact in just 2 years despite the lack of support from my line manager. I wonder how a person's subjective evaluation and lack of integrity can ruin a person's career and well-being. I go to work to do some useful work for the company but not build relationships with managers or others. Meaningful connections can be byproducts but they are not the key goals in my opinion.

I wonder why he has chosen this gaslighting behavior over me and what might have done to prevent such situations in the future. Can anyone suggest how I should move on and how to grow from this scenario?

I really don't need sympathy guys but I need tools and skillset to handle such people.

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Discussion

(10 comments)
  • 1
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    Eng @ Taro
    3 days ago

    Sorry you have to deal with all of these issues. It's never fun to have to go to work when you have to deal with these kinds of personalities.

    It's hard to tell exactly what the behaviors that they say you are doing from the post. What kinds of things are they saying to you, and what do you know to be the truth?

    what makes us as a difficult target for such people?

    I've experienced area leads taking my credit

    If you can document and leave a paper trail of all of your work, then it will make it very difficult for other people to take undue credit. If they try to take advantage by saying they did something, you have a paper trail to show otherwise. This paper trail can come in the form of status updates through email/chat or through commits in your code repo. Try to get ahead of anyone taking credit from you by being more proactive in showing off the work you've done.

    • 0
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      Staff Software Engineer [OP]
      Taro Community
      10 hours ago

      Thanks Charlie for the good tip!
      Not everyone has the habit of credit stealing, but if I find such people, I will record it in formal channels and share it before sharing it with others. I've had the experience that the recorded proofs don't work well in a toxic work environment => it is not a place to continue :(
      Even if the job or area of work is interesting, one must have the courage to leave and find a better place.

  • 1
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    Tech Lead/Manager at Meta, Pinterest, Kosei
    3 days ago

    Right after 3 months, on the TELL day, I was moved to a different organization

    what is the TELL day?

    Do you need to interact with the ex-manager now? If you don't need a relationship with them, just focus on moving on rather than trying to understand the past.

    In general, it's almost always better to move on from a bad manager rather than trying to "fix" the situation or person.

    • 0
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      Staff Software Engineer [OP]
      Taro Community
      10 hours ago

      Thanks Rahul, you were right. I've to move on. I have developed a trauma that is based on fear. I've some inner work to do to build up my confidence. I don't have any direct connection with that manager fortunately, I don't want to keep that bridge. I don't mind losing a job but no one deserves mistreatment. Please correct me if I'm thinking wrong.

      The day when they formerly tell on their position status after a re-organization (layoff/cost reductions) is called TELL day. I too didn't know this concept, but found it as part of the organization announcements and process flows. This is the first time, I've experienced a forceful layoff in the company.

  • 1
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    3 days ago

    Sorry to hear about this - I imagine most of the industry, especially now, is working with bad managers. With toxic managers, the right solution 99% of the time is:

    1. Mitigate the pain (while step #2 is happening)
    2. Leave and find a better manager

    Mitigate The Pain

    This is a mix of working with what little goodwill they have and surrounding yourself with allies. We break this down in detail here: "My manager and I don't see eye-to-eye. How can I improve this relationship?"

    An extreme option is to create a "secret manager" who effectively acts as your real manager without the title. Your actual manager is the reverse, having the title but not the influence over you. I talk about that here: "How can I navigate a toxic work culture with a low EQ engineering manager while maintaining my motivation and professional integrity?"

    Leave

    First, you obviously never want a toxic manager to know that you're thinking of leaving, so coordinate the move in secret. Do the bare minimum to meet expectations at your job with 10% buffer, and use the remaining time for interview prep. Check out our job switching learning path here: Land Your Dream Job In Tech

    Of course, you want to make sure your next manager isn't toxic as well. I recommend this: [Masterclass] What Software Engineers Should Look For In Their Engineering Manager

    • 0
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      Staff Software Engineer [OP]
      Taro Community
      10 hours ago

      Thanks Alex, if you say these are the only possible choices then they are ones!
      Now I know how to think and act. I need this validation and information. If I can practice it well, and find alliances, and support systems, then I'll not get stuck in such bad situations and I can protect myself.

  • 1
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    3 days ago

    I wonder why he has chosen this gaslighting behavior over me and what might have done to prevent such situations in the future.

    From "good girl complex", I assume you're a woman and he's a man. It can honestly just be that. Sexism is still rampant in tech, and given how the US is going, this will probably get worse.

    Not liking your "tone" is a classic sexist attack as women's ambition and confidence are often interpreted as them being "entitled" or "bossy" by men. I've seen this happen way too many times unfortunately.

    Can anyone suggest how I should move on and how to grow from this scenario?

    It's grim, but take it as a learning of the harsh reality of the industry. Even though your manager was clearly in the wrong, there are rarely situations where you functioned 100% optimally and did nothing wrong. Always try to introspect and see what you could have done to improve the situation - You'll generally find at least 1-2 small things. Here's a good course about managing up: Managing Up: Build Effective Relationships With Your Boss

    • 0
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      Staff Software Engineer [OP]
      Taro Community
      9 hours ago

      Thanks Alex, you are fully right! I was reflecting on what I could have done better. I also started the course Managing Up: Build Effective Relationships With Your Boss.

      I'm a native Indian working in Sweden. That toxic manager is a native Italian working in Sweden. He is 25 years older than me with 28 years of overall experience in the company, worked as a Chief Architect for many years, and 6+ years as a Line Manager. I used to have respect for him for his journey and calm attitude. For almost a year, I believed he had good intentions but didn't know how to communicate. But I was wrong, I was in a limbo state and it was confusing. I used to hear something harsh comments and if I questioned him next 1-on-1, he would deny or minimize it. Else he used to say he has memory issues. But over emails/chat, he used to be extra kind. Actions and words don't match. Whenever he does something terrible, he recognizes some other work done by me on a global platform but never he repairs the damage or asks me about my feelings, or just ask how he can support me better. Others in the team used to support him by saying he is the best manager that I can ever get. It was a very confusing experience for me. I was one of the top performers and I got good appreciation as a role model from many people over the years, but I didn't understand why this person is always trying to set me up for failure. I didn't play any politics anytime in my career, I gave my work 101%, I used to help people genuinely and I didn't have any interest in climbing the ladder or asking for hikes. I wanted to work in a meaningful way and learn as much as possible. All I used to ask him was I needed one learning certification or a course per year and a mentor to help with navigation. I never got what I asked and there is zero support.

      I have a very good memory, I used to question him on certain comments he made in my 1-on-1 and whatever he says with a Line Manager hat is not easy to forget. I used to ruminate on the feedback and see where I could improve. Instead of answering the main issue, why is the tone a giant problem? Can't we ask direct questions to Line Managers? Like "Last week I remember you mentioned XYZ, can you tell me the motivation behind it".

      Even if this tone is the major case, personalized training or courses or a mentorship program might have helped me. But I was not given the support. The only thing I heard each time when I questioned his behaviors or tried to make him accountable was "I don't like your tone, I will not support you or prove me what I said last time or You are too sensitive & you need to grow a tolerance to poor behaviors or I'm on your team, why don't you trust me or see me as a friend like others in the team".

      Is there any simulation-based course or training to improve the communication esp. related to tone (verbally and non-verbally)? If there is a 1% chance to improve on the tone, I want to work on my skillset. Can you please guide me to move in that direction?

      He also made comments that I was ambitious, I still wonder if I'm ambitious and if it is taking me somewhere to threaten people. I don't see myself as a threat or competition to anyone. But I do question when someone behaves in inappropriate ways as a pattern.

      The other aspects that I believe I need to improve are "how to make people accountable at work" and "how to create psychological safety and not invoke jealousy even in toxic people "

  • 1
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    Tech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
    3 days ago

    I go to work to do some useful work for the company but not build relationships with managers or others. Meaningful connections can be byproducts but they are not the key goals in my opinion.

    It's true that having good relationships doesn't magically produce impact on its own, but it's so, so deeply connected that you should definitely view this as a key goal of your work.

    Even ignoring the tactical aspect (good relationship = easier to convince people to do stuff for you), relationships are valuable for future jobs as those people can refer you and connect you to other opportunities in general (e.g. they founded a rocketship startup and want you to join).

    So of course your relationship with your manager is useful. But let's say that fails, and the manager sucks. It's critical that you have good relationships with all your other peers, because if you do, they can protect you from the bad manager. The most common scenario here is that the manager thinks you're doing low-quality work or not enough work, but your peers can vouch for you, proving that your manager is wrong and that you are indeed delivering.

    I need to convert this into a course, but in the meantime, we have this: [Masterclass] How To Build Deep Relationships Quickly In Tech

    • 0
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      Staff Software Engineer [OP]
      Taro Community
      9 hours ago

      Peers can not help as they were in the same vulnerable position during layoffs and headcount needs to be reduced at any cost. They can help to report against the manager but I didn't share what I was going through and was already isolated when they announced layoffs. The process itself took 3-4 months to conclude. All I have now are lessons learned in the hard way. Maybe my story can let someone else not fall into the trap.