What is considered a bad reference?
A company (startup) asked me to provide a few reference checks as a formality and one of them was my manager from this summer. I asked her if she was willing to give me a reference. She agreed and even called me assuring she'd say good things about me.
After the reference call she follows up with me and said the reference call was short and said it went fine. Most of what she said was fine except she mentioned a weakness of mine and she poorly showed that I actively worked on it. They said something like:
XYZ moves really fast and his project evolves really quickly, which sometimes keeps stakeholders out of the loop. However, we managed to align expectations and complete the project with high quality
Normally, reference checks should be perfect and this clearly isn't. I'm not sure if that would appear as a red flag to a manager. I don't think my manager meant ill will, but since this is her first time giving a reference call, she probably was inexperienced. I feel really nervous and dejected because there were other people who might've been able to give reference, though they'd be from multiple summers ago. Is this something I should worry about, or is it minor?
The company has yet to call my second referrer, who also assured me that they'd say good things about me. What should I do with this one to absolutely make sure they say the right things?
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Discussion
(7 comments)- 111 days agoSDE @ Amazon - www.anamazonsde.com
Tbh, I don't think this is a bad feedback, it's an honest one, and shows also you deliver good results with high speed, and after identifying a problem (keeping stakeholders out of loop) you managed to align/fix that as well and deliver high quality work.
There is no perfect feedback or reference, and you won't be there listening to what every reference will say about you, I think your manager cared for you to let you know as well.
Good luck! And take it easy, it's a minor step, you already passed the hard ones.
- 0
9 days agoTech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course HeroI think you're overthinking this. The feedback looks pretty good as it starts off with the most important characteristic for an intern/junior engineer (coding velocity) and then shares how an obstacle was overcome. It's a very "human" feedback. As someone who's made tons of hiring decisions, I wouldn't see a red flag from this, especially for an intern/junior engineer. Maybe it's a yellow flag for a senior engineer hire.
If you're at reference stage, you are likely post-final round interview and gotten good feedback (if that isn't the case, please let us know). I really doubt this reference would tank your chances.
Good luck!
- 02 days agoSoftware Engineering InternTaro Community
Wanted to give a quick update. It’s been a week since my 2nd referrer gave his reference and they also assured that they said good things about me. The company was previously pretty quick in responding to interviews (1-2 day response) but this time they haven’t responded to me in a week. I even tried following up with the recruiter late last week but there was no response.
My referrers said that presumably the HMs (who were also my interviewers) were responsible for conducting the reference check. Wondering if I should have my referrer follow-up with the HM? What would be the best way of following up at this point?
- 02 days agoTech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
Just want to clarify: Both your references have spoken to the hiring committee and you haven't gotten an offer/no offer decision yet?
If this is the case, the 2 folks you tagged to provide references have done their job and should be out of the loop now - Don't rope them back in. It's up to you to keep following up with your recruiter/hiring manager to ask for the final decision.
The tricky part is that we're in the holiday season now and many employees are on vacation already. It might take a while to get a response.
Anyways, my rule is to try 3 times. If after 2 more attempts you still don't get a response, you have probably been ghosted 😔. It sucks if that were the case, but that's the reality of the tech industry unfortunately. I was ghosted by Google after reaching the final round there in 2015. It happens to everyone.
- 02 days agoSoftware Engineering InternTaro Community
Just want to clarify: Both your references have spoken to the hiring committee and you haven't gotten an offer/no offer decision yet?
Yes both my references have spoken. I’m assuming my referrers spoke to the hiring committee since it’s the CTO and a staff SWE who did the reference calls. Both of the CTO and the staff SWE have interviewed me. However, neither the staff swe nor the CTO know that I know they did the reference call. Would it be appropriate to reach out to the staff swe or the CTO in this case, or would it be more appropriate to stick with the recruiter?
- 02 days agoTech Lead @ Robinhood, Meta, Course Hero
Follow the standard and go through the recruiter. When it comes to this stuff, it's better to play it safe.
Overstepping boundaries can be taken as a yellow/red flag. I have seen job candidates be rejected for less.
- 09 days agoTech Lead/Manager at Meta, Pinterest, Kosei
What should I do with this one to absolutely make sure
Remind them of what you worked on together and sharing what you believe to be your strengths and areas you hope to grow in the future.
It's hard to over-engineer this, though, so I wouldn't spend too much time on this. Someone good with reference checks will ask good questions to cut through scripted language, something like "Of all the engineers you've worked with, would you say this person is in the top 1%, top 5%, top 10% or top 50% in dimension X." It's much harder to be hand-wavy with this type of question.
Also, if you overdo it with the person giving you the reference, you could strain your relationship with them.
