Managing Up: Introduction

Managing up is the skill of building ethical and effective relationships with your boss and senior peers. This course will teach you how to do that.

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon Vice President, now sharing his leadership expertise.

He spent 12 years in startups (10 in leadership roles), and then had a 15 year career at Amazon. He has led global teams of 800+ and products with annual revenue above $500M. He holds over 70 patents.

Managing Up: Understanding Your Boss

Understand the preferred communication style of your boss:

- Preferences/pet peeves

- Strengths and weaknesses

- Work to earn trust

- Share your own style and best environment

Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)

Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Growth And Promotion 1/6: Course Intro

What's in this course:

- How to ask for promotion and growth
- Helping out to earn trust
- Advanced lessons for any level
- Prioritization

Starting at Amazon as a Senior Manager, then Director, then Vice President, Ethan has had decades of experience at top tech companies. This career growth course is developed from his own knowledge and input from his extensive network of fellow coaches and executives. (See Rahul's interview with Ethan about [**the top 1% of engineers.)**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6P83dtntKo)

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Amazon VP Shares Why Reorgs Happen And Why The True Reason Is ALWAYS Hidden

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who has gone through dozens of re-orgs across his tech career. 

Re-orgs (reorganizations of the team structure) happen because at least one leader views something as broken: someone is under-performing, the right teams aren't collaborating, or some other reason which you may not have visibility into as an engineer. 

Once a re-org happens, an effective way to build trust is to schedule time with your new skip level manager and ask what the mission of the team is, and if your work is still aligned to that mission. Ask your manager to setup a meeting if you can't do it on your own. 

Communication challenges: Public announcements about such org changes often use vague language and corporate jargon, making it difficult for individual contributors to understand the true reasons behind them. This lack of transparency can lead to further confusion and distrust.

Legal considerations: Legal constraints limit how much information leaders can publicly disclose about personnel changes. Fear of lawsuits can lead to sanitized messages that obfuscate the real reasons behind decisions.

**More to explore:**

- [**\[Masterclass\] How To Work Better With Your Engineering Manager**](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/2PbJb2fuqF3iMHy57eEg/masterclass-how-to-work-better-with-your-engineering-manager/)
- [How To Effectively Leverage Skip Level 1:1s](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/TToehFEc738PBhJcALwL/how-to-effectively-leverage-skip-level-11s/)
- [**Ask Me Anything (AMA) with a Disney Eng Director - Greg Benson**](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/eHbg5nVkHn2LYJ55oOVf/ask-me-anything-ama-with-a-disney-eng-director-greg-benson/)

Managing Up: Effective Communication

Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Ethan's other courses on Taro: 

- <https://www.jointaro.com/course/the-growth-and-promotion-recipe-magic-loop/>
- <https://www.jointaro.com/course/maximizing-a-severance-package/>

How The Top 1% Of Engineers Are Judged

As a former VP of Engineering at Amazon, Ethan has the unique ability to share how the senior-most engineers were evaluated within Big Tech. These are the top few percent of engineers in the company (Staff Engineers, Principal Engineers, Distinguished Engineers, etc), and the expectations are incredibly high.

**Key insights:**

- **At very senior levels, technical excellence is table stakes.** The top-performing engineers use their technical expertise to help the business. 
- **The dynamic with company leadership is important**: these engineers must be proactive in helping the business, and not simply the "guru on the hill" who provides answers when asked.
- **There are different modalities to get to a very senior level**, e.g. CTO model, technical expert, product engineer, and others. It's ok if you don't want daily meetings with company leadership, but you must be working on a valuable enough problem that can merit an engineer of that seniority.
- **Finding a good manager is critical for both ICs and managers**. Two ways to evaluate this are (1) find a leader who has grown many people and (2) find a leader who is advancing rapidly in their career.

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who now teaches managers how to break into executive levels. He was at Amazon for 15 years, and he became a VP in 2013 until he left in 2020. Ethan shares valuable insights for anyone interested in management or career development.

**Helpful links:**

- [**\[Masterclass\] How To Work Better With Your Engineering Manager**](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/2PbJb2fuqF3iMHy57eEg/masterclass-how-to-work-better-with-your-engineering-manager/)
- Rahul's Senior to Staff course: <https://maven.com/taro/senior-to-staff>
- More from Ethan: <https://www.jointaro.com/topic/ethan-evans/>
- [Rahul's $800K TC journey](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inydj1VZ0y0)

Growth And Promotion 3/6: The Career Growth Recipe

The Magic Loop of Rapid Career Growth: a tested, simple process to grow your career. The “Career Growth Recipe” outlines a simple loop of five steps to advance your career: do your job well, ask how to help, fulfill requests, set goals, and repeat.

- 🎩 The Power of the Magic Loop: This framework emphasizes a collaborative approach to career advancement, fostering mutual support between employees and managers. By centering on shared goals, individuals can navigate their career paths more effectively.
- ✅ Performance Matters: Success starts with delivering exceptional work. Regularly assessing your performance through feedback can illuminate areas for improvement and reinforce your value in the workplace.
- 🤝 Building Relationships: Asking how to help is a proactive strategy that not only strengthens relationships with leadership but also positions you as a valuable team member willing to contribute beyond your immediate responsibilities.
- 🔄 Commitment to Tasks: Following through on tasks assigned by your boss demonstrates reliability. This commitment can pay off in terms of trust and future opportunities, making you a preferred team member for significant projects.
- 🎯 Goal-Oriented Conversations: Once trust is established, discussing your career goals with superiors can lead to tailored support for your ambitions, fostering a clear path to advancement.
- 📈 Continuous Learning: Embracing feedback as a tool for growth is crucial. It helps you identify blind spots and improve your performance, making you a stronger candidate for future opportunities.
- 💡 Adaptability and Initiative: Taking on tasks outside your comfort zone and asking for help when needed not only aids personal growth but also enhances your skill set, making you more versatile in your career.

Starting at Amazon as a Senior Manager, then Director, then Vice President, Ethan has decades of experience at top tech companies. This career growth course is developed from his own knowledge and input from his extensive network of fellow coaches and executives.

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Growth And Promotion 2/6: Author Intro

This video covers the course outline and Ethan's background:

- The career growth recipe: explaining the magic loop.
- Beyond the basics: Advanced tactics for high performers, guidance for leaders.
- Prioritization: How to make time to focus on your growth, specific steps to ensure that you do the most valuable work
- Summary: re-iterating key points.

Starting at Amazon as a Senior Manager, then Director, then Vice President, Ethan has had decades of experience at top tech companies. This career growth course is developed from his own knowledge and input from his extensive network of fellow coaches and executives.

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Lessons From The Top: Managing And Growing 800 People (Ethan Evans)

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who now teaches managers how to break into executive levels. He was at Amazon for 15 years, and he became a VP in 2013 until he left in 2020. This wide-ranging interview covers many topics:

- Ethan's career trajectory, and how he entered the management path startlingly early.
- How do you know if an IC will be a good manager or not?
- What are the common reasons why managers fail to get promoted?
- Why do re-orgs happen, and why is there so much corporate speak?
- What should you look for in a leader?
- How are the senior-most engineers evaluated?
- Why did Ethan leave Amazon to become a full-time teacher?

Ethan shares valuable insights for anyone interested in management or career development.

**Key insights:**

- **Why did Ethan choose management so early?** He was drawn to it because that was the need from his team and his managers supported his decision.
- **What skills helped Ethan ascend quickly in startups?** High-growth environments provided opportunities, but Ethan capitalized on them by actively seeking problems to solve and proposing solutions. He took initiative and wasn't afraid to ask for more responsibility.
- **What advice does Ethan have for others?** Be proactive, identify problems, and offer solutions. Don't be afraid to step up and make the ask to your leadership team. "*Do good work and hope*" is not an effective strategy.
- **Careers are long**. Ethan was a "fake" startup VP before going getting downleveled as a manager at Amazon, and it took years for him to return to a true VP role, managing a team of 800 people.

**Helpful links:**

- [\[Masterclass\] How To Work Better With Your Engineering Manager](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/2PbJb2fuqF3iMHy57eEg/masterclass-how-to-work-better-with-your-engineering-manager/)
- [Overcome Career Stagnation (5 Common Scenarios)](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/UvGdGyBfHn4oNCfE77KV/overcome-career-stagnation-5-common-scenarios/)
- [Asking 7 Levels Of Engineers The Most Important Skill](https://www.jointaro.com/playlist/J9Io5lDGaYUpI8vGrUyI/)
- [**How do I figure out whether I should stay as an IC engineer or explore management as an EM?**](https://www.jointaro.com/question/Y6qIop9wpOlCYUL0nGs0/how-do-i-figure-out-whether-i-should-stay-as-an-ic-engineer-or-explore-management-as-an-em/)
- [**\[Masterclass\] What Software Engineers Should Look For In Their Engineering Manager**](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/oeY7ncZhzJ5NO6dij5e7/masterclass-what-software-engineers-should-look-for-in-their-engineering-manager/)

Managing Up: Summary

The main takeaways from the Managing Up course:

- Understand your manager's style
- Share your style, build connection points
- "Be brief, be bright, be gone"
- Avoid surprises, be proactive
- Seek first to understand
- Own your 1:1s
- Set boundaries early

References:

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [**Ethan's Level Up community**](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Next steps:

- Share + get support: [**joinTaro.com/questions/create/**](http://joinTaro.com/questions/create/)
- Find community: [**joinTaro.com/events/**](http://joinTaro.com/events/)
- Send feedback to [**team@jointaro.com**](mailto:team+negotiation@jointaro.com)

Here's How To Identify A Superstar Leader

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who led teams of up to 800. Here are his two criteria to see your manager is worth working for.

**1\. Investing in people:**

- Look for a manager with a track record of **growing and promoting their team members**.
- Signs of this include:
  - Do reports of your manager often get promoted or take on higher responsibilities?
  - Does your manager actively create opportunities for your development and growth?
  - Does your manager provide good mentorship and guidance?
  - Managers with a loyal following strongly indicate their leadership qualities.

**2\. Personal trajectory:**

- Assess your manager's **career progression**.
- Look for:
  - Consistent upward movement and promotions.
  - A history of exceeding expectations and taking on greater challenges.
  - Faster-than-average advancement compared to peers.

**Reasoning:**

- A manager who invests in their people will more likely create a supportive and growth-oriented environment for you.
- A manager on a consistent upward trajectory signifies their competence and ability, potentially opening doors for their team's growth as well.

Explore more: 

- [Turning the Spotlight on Unsung Efforts: How to Be Perceived as Important and Impactful?](https://www.jointaro.com/question/G91Qd0GbID5AtnRbfGJE/turning-the-spotlight-on-unsung-efforts-how-to-be-perceived-as-important-and-impactful/)
- [How to manage a team towards high performance?](https://www.jointaro.com/question/O8vtGxsrwZebiSSlOlRd/how-to-manage-a-team-towards-high-performance/)
- [**\[Taro Top 10\] Software Engineer To Engineering Manager (IC -&gt; M Track)**](https://www.jointaro.com/playlist/oz0mnJvHHgM8NfVF7rgp/)

Managing Up: Enabling Managing Up to You

Managing Up: Politics and Ethics

Growth And Promotion 5/6: Prioritization

Key points:

- 💡 Prioritizing important tasks over urgent but less important tasks is key to career success.
- 🔔 Urgency often creates false importance, like notifications that demand attention but don't actually matter.
- 🔥 Focus on tasks that are both urgent and important first, like handling emergencies.
- 🚫 Learn to say 'no' to tasks that are urgent but not important in order to focus on high-impact work.
- 🤔 Many tasks we put off are important but hard, and tackling them first can improve productivity.
- 🏗 Break down large, difficult tasks into smaller pieces to make consistent progress every day.
- 🪨 Think of your day as a jar: put the big rocks (important tasks) in first before filling it with sand (small tasks).
- 👥 Delegation is key to efficiency: give away tasks you’ve mastered to others so you can focus on higher-value work.

Starting at Amazon as a Senior Manager, then Director, then Vice President, Ethan has decades of experience at top tech companies. This career growth course is developed from his own knowledge and input from his extensive network of fellow coaches and executives.

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Growth And Promotion 4/6: Beyond The Basics

Topics covered:

- 🔄 Stop asking and start suggesting solutions to help move toward your goals.
- 💼 Offer to take on tasks that align with your desired career path, such as stepping into product management roles.
- 🤝 Build trust by offering solutions rather than waiting for your boss to assign tasks.
- 🚀 As you grow in your role, learn to anticipate problems and solve them without needing direct permission.
- ✨ Becoming proactive and solving issues without being asked makes you valuable and trusted by your manager.
- ❌ Avoid bad habits like nagging for promotions or stepping on others to advance your career.
- ⚖️ Balance ambition with responsibility—don’t rush through promotions or switch roles too quickly. 🏃‍♂️ Chasing hot trends without focus can hinder your long-term career growth.
- 💡 Don’t compare yourself to others—focus on your own performance and growth.
- 📋 Be mindful of bad managers who may exploit you, but understand their motivations and manage relationships carefully.

Starting at Amazon as a Senior Manager, then Director, then Vice President, Ethan has decades of experience at top tech companies. This career growth course is developed from his own knowledge and input from his extensive network of fellow coaches and executives.

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

The 4 Paths To Manager Growth. Choose One.

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who now teaches managers how to break into executive levels. 

He shares how to get promoted as a front-line manager (M1). The pre-requisite is that you must do good work. This means motivating your team, delivering results, and organizing them effectively. M1s are focused inward and downward, with most of their time and attention on their team. M2s (managers of managers) focus on the bigger picture, considering how their team fits into the larger organization and collaborating for overall success.

**Four main ways to grow:**

- **Organic growth:** Your team and the company naturally expand, increasing your responsibility.
- **Filling holes:** Someone above you leaves, and you're chosen due to your performance.
- **Reorganizations:** Teams get shuffled, and you absorb parts of others' responsibilities.
- **Lead a new initiative:** Successfully launching a new project demonstrates leadership and initiative, potentially leading to promotion.

When times were good (i.e. metrics were strong and the company was doing well), there was more capacity for people to get promoted. For example, the gold, silver, and bronze medalist (3 people) may have gotten promoted, but in a stagnant company, only the gold medalist would get the promo. 

Although you can't control when people leave or if there will be a re-org, what you can do is **focus on being the top performer:** Consistently deliver excellent results, demonstrate strong leadership, and be ready to take on additional responsibilities.

Relevant follow-ups: 

- [Would you recommend SDEs try a rotation as an SDM?](https://www.jointaro.com/question/BRNUnPJ0y2BttQhPNmCu/would-you-recommend-sdes-try-a-rotation-as-an-sdm/?playlistId=oz0mnJvHHgM8NfVF7rgp)
- [**\[Taro Top 10\] Software Engineer To Engineering Manager (IC -&gt; M Track)**](https://www.jointaro.com/playlist/oz0mnJvHHgM8NfVF7rgp/)

The Correct Reason To Become A Manager

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who now coaches managers to break into executive levels. 

Ethan believes the "correct" answer for someone's motivation to becoming a manager should be based on a genuine desire to help and grow other people, rather than on external factors like money or power. People who are motivated by these external factors tend to make poor managers.

The management job is very different from the individual contributor (IC) role. You may be used to learning different technology stacks, but management is about learning an orthogonal "stack" altogether, focused on soft skills and people.

Reflect on your own experiences with good and bad managers -- it's important for managers to have a cohesive style that has a clear set of opinions. This style will not be suitable for everyone, but that's ok. Ethan made the analogy of ice cream flavors. There's no correct ice cream, people will have different preferences in the same way that people will prefer different types of managers. 

Ask yourself (and ideally, test drive) the activities you would do as a manager, things like organizing people's work and holding them accountable.

More to explore:

- [**\[Taro Top 10\] Software Engineer To Engineering Manager (IC -&gt; M Track)**](https://www.jointaro.com/playlist/oz0mnJvHHgM8NfVF7rgp/)
- [**How do I figure out whether I should stay as an IC engineer or explore management as an EM?**](https://www.jointaro.com/question/Y6qIop9wpOlCYUL0nGs0/how-do-i-figure-out-whether-i-should-stay-as-an-ic-engineer-or-explore-management-as-an-em/?playlistId=oz0mnJvHHgM8NfVF7rgp)
- [Asking For A Promotion: The Wrong Way vs. The Right Way](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/GvT4NBqaBULFlizarSCf/asking-for-a-promotion-the-wrong-way-vs-the-right-way/)

Ethan Evans' Career Path: Startup Manager to Amazon VP

[Ethan Evans](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP. He shared his career journey starting out during the dot-com boom of the 1990s, quickly ascending as a manager at a string of startups.

**Early Career and Management Path:**

- Ethan started in management early, taking on a TPM role for a small project due to the team's need.
- He was drawn to leadership because the project lacked organization, focus, and communication.
- Ethan was supported by managers and encouraged to continue in the role. He progressed through several startups, growing in each one and reaching VP level by the third.

**Joining Amazon:**

- Ethan was a "fake" startup VP before going getting downleveled as a manager at Amazon, and it took years for him to return to a true VP role, managing a team of 800 people.
- The startup he was at was failing, and Amazon offered more compensation despite being giving a worse title.
- He initially managed a team of six at Amazon, which eventually grew to 800. 

Ethan credits his rapid ascent to:

- Seeing problems and proactively solving them.
- Taking initiative and asking for more responsibility.
- Curiosity and motivation to understand the bigger picture.

More to explore: 

- [\[Taro Top 10\] Software Engineer To Engineering Manager (IC -&gt; M Track)](https://www.jointaro.com/playlist/oz0mnJvHHgM8NfVF7rgp/)
- [What's the difference between Big Tech and startups in terms of learning and growth?](https://www.jointaro.com/question/KWXIrFIR1EIJsvdOdo7u/whats-the-difference-between-big-tech-and-startups-in-terms-of-learning-and-growth/)
- [How much am I hurting my career by staying at a startup? (Pressure to work for big tech)](https://www.jointaro.com/question/dqCvmYhI9WE0k33orZEP/how-much-am-i-hurting-my-career-by-staying-at-a-startup-pressure-to-work-for-big-tech/)

Growth And Promotion 6/6: Summary

The 'magic loop' recipe for career success emphasizes doing your job well, asking how you can help, setting goals, prioritizing important tasks, delegating less crucial work, and repeating this process.

- We cover how managers can share this approach with their team, giving specific feedback focused on the work rather than the person, and investing in team members' growth.
- For employees, we discuss being patient when offering to help managers, following the magic loop process, prioritizing work that matters, and considering career coaching. Consider coaching for personalized guidance and an outside perspective.

References:

- Connect with [**Ethan on LinkedIn**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/)
- Taro members get a discount to join [Ethan's Level Up community](https://levelupwithethanevans.substack.com/taro25)

Next steps:

- Share + get support: [**joinTaro.com/questions/create/**](http://joinTaro.com/questions/create/)
- Find community: [**joinTaro.com/events/**](http://joinTaro.com/events/)
- Send feedback to [**team@jointaro.com**](mailto:team@jointaro.com)

Leaving An Executive Role To Become A Teacher

[**Ethan Evans**](https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanevansvp/) is a retired Amazon VP who now teaches managers how to break into executive levels. He was at Amazon for 15 years, and he became a VP in 2013 until he left in 2020.

Ethan could have spent several more decades in high-powered engineering leadership roles, but he chose to leave his lucrative career at Amazon to focuse on personal development coaching and teaching.

**Reason for leaving Amazon:**

- Ethan found more satisfaction in helping people develop than building things. He actually wanted to scale his impact beyond at Amazon with the role of upgrading the whole eng team.
- Amazon wasn't receptive to his ideas for talent development initiatives. they told him the best bet was for him to become the VP of Eng for the HR products.

**Today, Ethan is focused on** teaching individuals for career development. He creates and shares free content (e.g., daily writing on LinkedIn) and then offers paid coaching and training programs for high-potential individuals.

**Motivation for charging for some services:**

- Belief that people value paid services more than free ones.
- Desire to focus limited time on highly motivated clients.
- Money is not the primary driver but it is important for reaching a wider audience and sustaining the work.
- Charging for high-value services from those who can afford it is ethical and practical.

Ethan is now pursuing his passion to help people grow and achieve their career goals. He's adopted a hybrid approach of free and paid services to maximize their impact and reach.

More to explore: 

- [\[Case Study\] Building An Engineering Brand - Why And How (LinkedIn, YouTube, Twitter, Substack)](https://www.jointaro.com/lesson/t06NajpS2kSCk98IEmQm/case-study-building-an-engineering-brand-why-and-how-linkedin-youtube-twitter-substack/)
- [When does it make sense to leave big tech?](https://www.jointaro.com/question/v6GBLlfXb1ugNobkEm7w/when-does-it-make-sense-to-leave-big-tech/)
- [I'm Greg, Ex-Google/Netflix current Director at Disney. AMA!](https://www.jointaro.com/question/CdPjNOXvU882180yzs6R/im-greg-ex-googlenetflix-current-director-at-disney-ama/?a=X1zCA1EgxqdSBELHLfkO)

In the [managing up class](https://www.jointaro.com/course/managing-up-build-effective-relationships-with-your-boss/) by Ethan Evans, there's a mention of an app that can show personality & communication style results of a manager. What's the name of this app?

Name of the app to get personality based on text input?

Ethan Evans Q&A and Videos

About Ethan Evans